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  1. #1

    Arrow Seriously, what the heck are these?

    Seriously, these make no earthly sense. I remember seeing these from years ago and they don't really say anything to me. I see flow charts, lots of arrows but nothing that makes any sense.
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  2. #2

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    Hey Gad.....I'd gladly explain it to you all now im going to have some breakfast ;)

    hint : check out my explanation in the Chord Cookbook thread:

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8041
    Last edited by Rgalvez; 01-29-2012 at 11:25 AM.

  3. #3
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    As a start you will notice the blue squares in the large map correspond to simple map. And the simple map lists the 6 diatonic (fancy word for made from notes in the scale) triad chords of the key. They are shown using the scale degree numbering where upper case roman numerals are major chords, and the lower case are minor chords. So in the large map, which is for the key of A, the box labeled "home" is the root.

    All the green circles are "advanced" chords that can work with the key, but contain notes that are outside the key. The nomenclature within the box show possible modifications to the chords that will also work. Like dominant 7th, sus4, or add9 chords.

    So at it's most basic, start at "home" jump to anywhere on the map and follow the arrows back "home". Also remember that anyplace the same chord is shown multiple times, they are effectively the same place and you can go between them. As an example in the big map 'E' and Bm are listed twice. So starting at A you could jump to the upper right E and proceed to F#m to Bm. This Bm is "linked" to the upper middle Bm, so you could then proceed to C#M, D, back to A. Just by following the arrows.

    That is using the simplest part of the map. There are 6 or 7 pages of in depth description at the author website http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/index.htm

    Another real quick, absolutely simple example is the most used chord progression I-IV-V, which in A is A-D-E. But most blues songs would be A-D-E7, and this is seen are the chord modifier in the bottom of the 'E' box. Just like using a sus2, or sus4 modification on the A chord is very common in pop songs.

    I hope this helps.
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  4. #4

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    OK RJ explained it quite well.

    Gad this is a roadmap to write songs (ie chord progressions).
    Just grab your guitar and play the chords that the flow show you. You will find out that the chords you play sound good , they sound logical, as a song should be. The reason is because these sequence of chords follow harmony, and songs follow harmony: songs are a short trip in which you have a combo of tensions that need to be resolved, and this resolution is home, the tonic , it is the I of the diagram.

    So the trick to get these diagrams is to play them with yoour guitar. (the complex diagram in A uses lots of chords because they are the possible substitutions for other chords). A songwriter does not have these maps in order to write songs:it is is the combination of melody, rhythm, lyrics, and harmony that brings a cool song.
    These maps only show possibilities of chords, in a logical way.

  5. #5

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    Ah now these make a bit more sense instead of the 'whoa these are awesome charts' . Time to put this thread in the Beginners Section Thanks guys.
    Enjoy Your Karma, after all you earned it.
    “Atheism is a non-prophet organization.” -George Carlin

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  6. #6
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    Here is a thread from 2008 where I posted these (the link to this is in the Great Links thread in the General Forum)

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread.html?t=554

    This is a flow chart from a piano site I visit. It's what I refer to when thinking about song writing:

    Here's the rules....first just looking at the blue boxes:
    To use the map, remember two things. First, you may jump anywhere from I. Second, if a chord appears at more than one place, there is an "imaginary tunnel" connecting both spots, so you can move from one to the other. Got it?

    With the map you can do exercises like:

    1. Write a long "loop," starting with the I chord, Jump from I to wherever you like. Then work your way back to I by following the arrows.

    2. Write several three or four chord sequences. Start anywhere on the map. Follow the arrows.

    Here are some possible answers.
    I - iii - vi - IV - ii - V - I is a "loop."
    It starts and ends on I.
    IV - V - I is a three chord sequence.
    vi - ii - V - I is a four chord sequence.
    ii - V - iii - vi is another.
    You can find a lot more.

    Remember, the Map doesn't write your song for you, but it helps you find natural, smooth-sounding chord patterns. If you experiment with these natural-sounding patterns, you will automatically start using them in your music. When you do, your audience will relate well to these sections. This is good for your audience. You want them to "hear" things in advance and guess right, not all the time, but a good percentage of the time.

    Now the rest of them:
    The octagon with C/G inside indicates that this chord quite often follows Dm or F, and then heads for G before going home to C. The box labeled F/C and G/C shows that the right hand chord can change while the bass note (C) stays right where it is. This technique, holding a bass note while varying the chord above it, yields many surprising and useful sounds. Finally, the little box labeled C/E is often found between F and Dm. It works going either way.

    The chords with a green background don't belong to the key of C; they come from other keys. They are useful when we want to "step further out." You can put a green chord almost anywhere, but when you do, you'll probably want to follow the arrows back toward the blue ones. Your audience will feel good when the chords that seem "far from home" step back to more familiar ground.

    Easy as pie. The website has chord aps for every key and more. Very interesting way to look at song writing IMHO.

    Too soon we grow old, too late we grow wise

    "I once played notes so fast that light emanated from the strings whereupon, I saw God.... who then told me to relax and start playing music."

    "You know, once you've had that guitar up so loud on the stage, where you can lean back and volume will stop you from falling backward, that's a hard drug to kick." David Gilmour

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  7. #7
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    Also it looks like rj was a little confused back then but has figured it out and found it useful:

    "And the next webcast, Wolfboy's map reading lesson!

    Ahem. It looks like it could be real useful, but ...... :confused:

    I can follow the big letters in the blue squares, but thats about it.
    It is a cool little cheat sheet. "
    Too soon we grow old, too late we grow wise

    "I once played notes so fast that light emanated from the strings whereupon, I saw God.... who then told me to relax and start playing music."

    "You know, once you've had that guitar up so loud on the stage, where you can lean back and volume will stop you from falling backward, that's a hard drug to kick." David Gilmour

    Truefire Science Officer (dabgonit....where's my blue shirt!)

  8. #8
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    Ahhh I thought they looked familiar...
    ----------------------------------
    Stay tuned

    Chris

  9. #9

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    Okay, I know that there are chord progressions. I know there are flow charts. I know that all chord progressions aren't I - IV - V. For my thinking, if a flow chart is supposed to show the A Progression then why isn't the first note - the 'A' note, the first note and using a flowchart shape that denotes a start and then why are the arrows pointing to the A instead of to the next note in the progression? You know, a graphic or an image is supposed to make something easier to understand. These graphics don't do that and if you have to decipher them then they aren't doing the job. That's what I'm saying here.
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  10. #10

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    I see the author shows the I IV V at the end (do you see it?)..and why the arrows away from A (home) ? because you could use the 'tonic' during a song..... the tonic is never played specifically at the beginning and in the end of a song.

    So i would use these maps only as 'possibilties'...
    what you have to think is:

    1) I'm Gad.
    2) I'm Gad 'the songwriter' !
    3) I want to write a song about kicking the a... of some people out there.
    4) here's my guitar.
    5) I play a C....thnaggg..sounds nice...ok so this is my key (in the example)
    6) what would be my second chord?..here are some possibilities.....(the maps)
    7) but the maps are just possibilities.....you have to think if you want a sad song, a happy song, or whatever mood song.
    8) you just follow your heart...but thinking about the chords of the key you chose. ..if you are tired of this key you temporary 'modulate' (change keys) to another..but soon you will return to C.
    9) so don't worry too much about these flows..they only give you suggestions.....what you shouyld do?
    10) listen to songs and analyze them: not only I IV V progressions.
    11) maybe some TF courses like Rabi, Matt brandt or Vbicky Genfan could help.
    Last edited by Rgalvez; 01-30-2012 at 07:00 AM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by gadlaw View Post
    Okay, I know that there are chord progressions. I know there are flow charts. I know that all chord progressions aren't I - IV - V. For my thinking, if a flow chart is supposed to show the A Progression then why isn't the first note - the 'A' note, the first note and using a flowchart shape that denotes a start and then why are the arrows pointing to the A instead of to the next note in the progression? You know, a graphic or an image is supposed to make something easier to understand. These graphics don't do that and if you have to decipher them then they aren't doing the job. That's what I'm saying here.
    G, I just stumbled upon a site today that actually walks through this and makes it pretty easy to understand. Wolf's post also makes good sense! I agree this isn't easy to understand at first glance but once explained, is a pretty nifty tool. This is the link to the last page of the series, but it explains the diagrams. Cycle back through the other pages for more background

    http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/part5.htm

    The key here, no pun intended, is that songs usually DO start on the tonic (sorry Rgalvez, but you completely lost me saying songs never start or end on the tonic???) and from the tonic we can jump off to any other block in the map. That's why there are no arrows from it because there would be arrows to everything. Then, the natural or most common progressions follow the arrows from the other boxes. The A in this case is the most common starting point but you don't have to start there so there isn't a stating point in the chart like you are familiar with in a typical flow chart.

    So to address your comment about there being no I-IV-V, specifically speaking, there isn't but use it and walk through the chart. We start at the I as is common and can go anywhere, so we go to the IV. That then has arrows, as expected, to the V and there is your I-IV-V pattern in the chart. I think what it lacks is any way to show the most common progressions like the I-IV-V but the progressions are there.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by JN999 View Post
    G, I just stumbled upon a site today that actually walks through this and makes it pretty easy to understand. Wolf's post also makes good sense! I agree this isn't easy to understand at first glance but once explained, is a pretty nifty tool. This is the link to the last page of the series, but it explains the diagrams. Cycle back through the other pages for more background

    http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/part5.htm

    The key here, no pun intended, is that songs usually DO start on the tonic (sorry Rgalvez, but you completely lost me saying songs never start or end on the tonic???) and from the tonic we can jump off to any other block in the map. That's why there are no arrows from it because there would be arrows to everything. Then, the natural or most common progressions follow the arrows from the other boxes. The A in this case is the most common starting point but you don't have to start there so there isn't a stating point in the chart like you are familiar with in a typical flow chart.

    So to address your comment about there being no I-IV-V, specifically speaking, there isn't but use it and walk through the chart. We start at the I as is common and can go anywhere, so we go to the IV. That then has arrows, as expected, to the V and there is your I-IV-V pattern in the chart. I think what it lacks is any way to show the most common progressions like the I-IV-V but the progressions are there.
    Thanks kindly JN999. I will print this out and give it a hard look when I get a chance.
    Enjoy Your Karma, after all you earned it.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by JN999 View Post
    The key here, no pun intended, is that songs usually DO start on the tonic (sorry Rgalvez, but you completely lost me saying songs never start or end on the tonic???) and from the tonic we can jump off to any other block in the map.
    I think I was on something when I wrote that . Seriously JN thank you for observation. What I actually wanted to say is that it is not a pre requisite that the tonic should be used at the beginning or at the end of the song. Indeed there are thousand of songs where the tonic is used especially in the end. But more creative songwriters avoid such formula and use the tonic elsewhere.
    The idea is that the key used in a song should be around 'a tonic', the use of a key would avoid confusion of listeners. You could change keys indeed, but you should avoid too many changes (unless you play avant garde music).
    Sorry for the confusion, since english is not my mother tongue sometimes I tend to write literally (if I am thinking in spanish).
    cheers

  14. #14

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    I guess I'll read your explanation - I gave up on the author's.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by gadlaw View Post
    Seriously, these make no earthly sense. I remember seeing these from years ago and they don't really say anything to me. I see flow charts, lots of arrows but nothing that makes any sense.
    I think it's a copy of a DNA sequence on someone's chromosome.

  16. #16

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    This is a good example of taking something slightly complicated and turning it into rocket science.

    It reminds me of the debate surrounding dihydrogen monoxide.

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