diminished triads ignored

[mysticguitar]

I have been cheery picking from "Triads and Hendrixian double stops" and as in other courses I have viewed the diminished chord is shelved. I'd like to know what are the 3 notes that make a diminished chord? What throws me off is the b7. I know a diminished chord is root, flat 3 and flat 5 but how does the flat seven enter the picture? And once the the flat 7 enters the picture then it isn't a triad any more, it's 1, b3, b5, b7 and since I want a Triad do I just eliminate the 5th or the root?

[JoaoPazGuitar]

hi mystic!

the diminshed chord can be found on the major scale, on the 7th degree. think of c major and you have B D F as your dimished triad. the diminished 7th chord, however, is not diatonic, you can't find it in the major key, so maybe that's what's puzzling you.

cool things about the dimished chord is that it's symmetric. the diminished 5th divides the octave in two and the minor 3rd divides the dim 5th in two, so a dimished 7th chords divide the octave in exactly 4 equal chunks, minor thirds.

this makes that there are only 3 different diminished 7th chords - let's say C, Db and D, because when you reach Eb you're already on another inversion of the C dim7 chord.

you mentioned the flat 7. that's actually a doube flat 7. in C (in the root) you'd have C Eb Gb Bbb.

another funny thing related to your question if you remove the 5th you'd still have a diminished triad. let's think of B D F Ab - if you remove the F and think of Ab as G# then you still have the dim G# B D chord.

back to you!
Joao

[rjbasque]

JPG covers the theory well.

But to the original question. There really is no diminished triad, because as a triad it tends to be "ambiguous" without the 4th note. So as Brad Carlton often states the diminished chord doesn't stand on it's own as a triad.

At least I think this is true.

[JoaoPazGuitar]

hi rjbasque!

sorry I have yet to discover Brad Carlton's great stuff - well. I received vol 10.10 a few days ago and I'm already impressed

what 4th note are you talking about, the 7th of the chord?

ambiguous is a right word as you can use this chord to modulate to 4 keys at the same time...!

[steveo]

Whatz a 10.10.
JoaoPazGuitar your a good player enjoyed your stormy Sunday, just too pretty too have the word Stormy in there.
Peace