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  1. #1

    Default Lessons with an Instructor Fourth and Fifth Weeks

    Another couple of weeks of lessons with a guitar instructor have gone past and we're making the progress I was wanting to make. The last couple of lessons have involved making chords and then making Barre Chords which involves learning and knowing information about what makes up a Major Chord - the 1,3,5 Notes of the Scale with the 1 Note being the Root, the 3 Note being the 3rd Note of the Scale and the 5 Note being the 5th Note of the Scale. Numbers and letters, letters and numbers. It's beginning to make sense to me as it's explained and I'm compelled to do the work showing that I understand. Apparently I sometimes revert back to my High School days when I tried to hide in the back of the room if I didn't have a complete understanding of what's going on. Like with that Gb and F# Scale thre's always something that I can't immediately grasp and so I try to hem and haw my way out of it.

    With the Chord making exercises and the 1,3,5 for the Major and the 1,b3,5 for the Minor I was cool. For the Maj7 - 1,3,5,7 I was still alright. Heading to the Dom7 - 1.3.5.b7 and the minor7 - 1,b3,5,b7 I'm definitely starting to swim. Looking at a small four fret bit of the Fretboard I find myself struggling with the concept of the b7 going down but going up the Fretboard. It's like me having trouble traveling North to the South - my brain feels like I need to always travel north and so I'll go North even if I have to go South. It takes a good long time to get that in my head and it's the same with the Fretboard, going down in tone from a 3 to a b3 logically means going down the Fretboard except that's wrong - gotta go up to go down. Makes me crazy.

    The week after that was pretty much Caged form Barre Chords which made sense to me when I heard Marc Schonburg explained it. Except I missed an important part of what the Instructor was telling as I was escaping the week before and so I thought I was still working the 1,3,5 or the 1,b3,5 formulas so I couldn't figure out how he wanted it. When I came back the next week and realized it was 6th String Roots and 5th String Roots it was duh time for me. But again, teacher wouldn't let me just say 'aha, I see' - dude had me go through the charts to show I knew what was going on. Huff - it's like school.

    The only other thing this last week, I've seen a larger number of folks coming in for lessons. Little folks, children sized folks. The music store where I'm at has horns and strings and drums and vocal as well as guitar teachers. You can see the narrow hallways, small rooms. That picture doesn't have many folks but they were there a few minutes after that. The approach of the school year has brought the children. But most of the guitar students are adult sized folks so there is that. The other picture is the drive to the store.

    Next week we're off to talk about the Minor Scales, something about them being the sixth degree of the major scale so it looks like a bunch more stuff to memorize.
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    Enjoy Your Karma, after all you earned it.
    “Atheism is a non-prophet organization.” -George Carlin

    email: gadlaw@gmail.com - http://www.facebook.com/gadlaw

  2. #2
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    >>It takes a good long time to get that in my head and it's the same with the Fretboard, going down in tone from a 3 to a b3 logically means going down the Fretboard except that's wrong - gotta go up to go down. Makes me crazy.

    What do you mean? Down is towards the nut, up is toward to hole. Right?
    now trying to break 1900.

  3. #3

    Default 7 vs b7

    to gain an understanding of the relative difference between the 7 and b7 think of it this way, a maj7 chord has the natural 7, it gives the chord a sweet almost ethereal sound, a 7th chord has the b7 instead of the natural 7 and gives the chord a happy sound. This is the way we move the listener emotionally, just as a minor chord will sway the emotions to a sadder or darker emotion.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by richb2 View Post
    >>It takes a good long time to get that in my head and it's the same with the Fretboard, going down in tone from a 3 to a b3 logically means going down the Fretboard except that's wrong - gotta go up to go down. Makes me crazy.

    What do you mean? Down is towards the nut, up is toward to hole. Right?
    Exactly Rich, it requires changing your view of up and down when it comes to the guitar that is. It's important for me to keep my up and down in reality though - hiking up Mountains and everything.
    Enjoy Your Karma, after all you earned it.
    “Atheism is a non-prophet organization.” -George Carlin

    email: gadlaw@gmail.com - http://www.facebook.com/gadlaw

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by slasner View Post
    to gain an understanding of the relative difference between the 7 and b7 think of it this way, a maj7 chord has the natural 7, it gives the chord a sweet almost ethereal sound, a 7th chord has the b7 instead of the natural 7 and gives the chord a happy sound. This is the way we move the listener emotionally, just as a minor chord will sway the emotions to a sadder or darker emotion.
    You know, that has to be the best thing about a live instructor - he can say things like that and pull down his guitar and play those examples for you. Or like my instructor did the other week - he said alright, you play the A Minor Pentatonic and I did as he played some chords, sounded cool. He said, alright, now play that same Pentatonic Shape but play it as an A Major Pentatonic Shape, totally different notes - then he played some chords and darned if it didn't sound 'Country' .

    Instant feedback! It was in response to my question/statement about the different uses of the A Minor/A Major. Perfect answer that I could see and hear.
    Enjoy Your Karma, after all you earned it.
    “Atheism is a non-prophet organization.” -George Carlin

    email: gadlaw@gmail.com - http://www.facebook.com/gadlaw

  6. #6

    Default

    If I understand you right Gad, you have to forget everything you know about what's up and down in real life. On guitar you have to think "is a pitch going up or is it going down. Thus, moving towards the nut is down and moving towards the soundhole is up. Likewise, the first string is UP (even though it's closer to the floor) compared to the 6th string, which is down in pitch (even though it's closer to the ceiling).

    If I misunderstood you... well... forget what I just said.

    As an aside, I see I've surpassed "the deuce" as a TF forum-uh-er. Small by TF standards, but a big accomplishment for me!
    The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by herby View Post
    If I understand you right Gad, you have to forget everything you know about what's up and down in real life. On guitar you have to think "is a pitch going up or is it going down. Thus, moving towards the nut is down and moving towards the soundhole is up. Likewise, the first string is UP (even though it's closer to the floor) compared to the 6th string, which is down in pitch (even though it's closer to the ceiling).

    If I misunderstood you... well... forget what I just said.

    As an aside, I see I've surpassed "the deuce" as a TF forum-uh-er. Small by TF standards, but a big accomplishment for me!
    That is exactly what I'm talking about!!! When I mention this problem Guitar folks look at me like there's something wrong with me but Guitar Theory and talk takes the known physical world and turns it upside down!! I hate that part and it requires me to retune my brain, still working on it.

    And Congratulations sir on reaching the 'Deuce' !!!- Two Hundred posts of outstanding worth and keen guitar knowledge!
    Enjoy Your Karma, after all you earned it.
    “Atheism is a non-prophet organization.” -George Carlin

    email: gadlaw@gmail.com - http://www.facebook.com/gadlaw

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadlaw View Post
    That is exactly what I'm talking about!!! When I mention this problem Guitar folks look at me like there's something wrong with me but Guitar Theory and talk takes the known physical world and turns it upside down!! I hate that part and it requires me to retune my brain, still working on it.

    And Congratulations sir on reaching the 'Deuce' !!!- Two Hundred posts of outstanding worth and keen guitar knowledge!
    Aw shucks... thanks Gad... I really mean it.

    As for the up/down thing, just let your brain keep "retuning" it. It's really pretty simple (which believe me I know, simple doesn't mean "easy" on guitar). But keep at it and it will become second nature after a while. The misunderstanding is really pretty common, but doesn't even approach insurmountable.
    The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

  9. #9

    Default

    Glad to hear your getting to grips with this theory stuff and learning it in a practical way.

    I'm currently teaching my bass player the stuff, to help him work on playing more interesting lines and to analyse other bass players lines.

  10. #10

    Red face Bass is good!

    Playing bass really helped me better understand outlining chord tones. Depending on the song or progression, you can play a 1, 3, or 5 note in a major scale and really boost the overall sound of a tune in different ways. I learned more about playing guitar by playing a 5 string bass. Love it!
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  11. #11

    Default

    You know Truth is I've always been perplexed by this, up is really down, down is really up, but then even though I'm going up physically I'm going down in scale terms....... Can be a bit confusing especially when talking with another guitarist or instructor.. But then again, I think everyone is confused and right handed guitar is really left handed guitar. I guess it's relative interpretation........

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