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  1. #1

    Default Using 'super arpegios'

    Hi fellow '335ers'

    Although I am 'reasonably' familiar with use of arpegios and triads in soloing, there is an extension to this topic, and if possible, I'd like Larry to cover this during his additional one hour videos.

    That is the topic of 'super arpegios' (there may be another term to describe this also). From what I have read, the theory of this goes something like this -"
    Take a triad - for example an C major triad, then move up by a Major 3rd interval, and play a minor triad (which would be an E Minor triad). Then take it up by a minor 3rd interval and play a major triad (which would be G Major triad), and so on. You could keep moving up by a major third, then a minor third, playing alternate minor and major triads continously. So in the above example, this would be:
    C maj, Em, G maj, Bm, DMaj, F#m, Amaj, Dbm, Emaj, etc.
    My guess is that this type of usage of triads would be most effective in modal types settings, and perhaps some specific harmonic contexts.

    According to Leon White, Larry uses this at times during his great 'Mulberry Street' solo from Strikes Twice. I have attempted to utilise this concept from time to time, with no real great results.

    I was wondering if Larry could explain the concept and also perhaps how it can be applied effectively, with some examples within some kind of musically context.
    That would be really interesting.

    Thanks.
    Steve.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevfim View Post
    Hi fellow '335ers'

    Although I am 'reasonably' familiar with use of arpegios and triads in soloing, there is an extension to this topic, and if possible, I'd like Larry to cover this during his additional one hour videos.

    That is the topic of 'super arpegios' (there may be another term to describe this also). From what I have read, the theory of this goes something like this -"
    Take a triad - for example an C major triad, then move up by a Major 3rd interval, and play a minor triad (which would be an E Minor triad). Then take it up by a minor 3rd interval and play a major triad (which would be G Major triad), and so on. You could keep moving up by a major third, then a minor third, playing alternate minor and major triads continously. So in the above example, this would be:
    C maj, Em, G maj, Bm, DMaj, F#m, Amaj, Dbm, Emaj, etc.
    My guess is that this type of usage of triads would be most effective in modal types settings, and perhaps some specific harmonic contexts.

    According to Leon White, Larry uses this at times during his great 'Mulberry Street' solo from Strikes Twice. I have attempted to utilise this concept from time to time, with no real great results.

    I was wondering if Larry could explain the concept and also perhaps how it can be applied effectively, with some examples within some kind of musically context.
    That would be really interesting.

    Thanks.
    Steve.
    That's really cool you've bought the "Super Arpeggios" subject up Steve from time to time I re-explore them having been fascinated from seeing LC use them on his first video I've charted out arps but just can't incorporate them into anything I do or maybe 2 or 3 ....LOL it's likely my brain can't cope with too much information as well but would be interesting if Larry could touch on the subject as an update ,there's very little out there on the subject ,there is a chart out there that someone created, I should have on my HDD somewhere

    H
    Worked On: BGSG Course BlogWorking On: 50 R&B Bass Grooves YMK Blog

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  3. #3

    Default

    Along the same lines....

    I've seen 2 videos from Brian Setzer and from Jimmy Bruno. They both describe an odd technique that they employ from time to time.

    I'll describe it using left hand finger descriptions rather than note names because that's how to visualize this thing.

    Take a D Major scale in the 7th position for example. Play the first three notes on the first string (high E) descending (fourth finger, third finger, first finger) then move to the second string. Play the form of the next three notes (fourth finger, second finger, first finger) but play it one fret down (6th position). We're not in Kansas any more.

    Now slide down one more fret to 5th position and play the three notes on the 3rd string (fourth finger, second finger, first finger) and continue down the neck in this fashion.

    So you're thinking "Major Scale shape" but sliding down one fret whenever you change strings.

    Usually this is done over a 5 chord in a turnaround but it can really be thrown in anywhere. It's a very outside sound and you need to save yourself by resolving somewhere along the fretboard or the world might come to an end. The faster you play it (get in, get out) the better. It's almost a diminished sound but not quite.

    Brian Setzer says "It's just garbage. It shouldn't work but it does." Jimmy Bruno says "Someone has analyzed this thing and has called it Super Locrian Hindu #9 mode or some such thing. It doesn't matter. Just think major scale form."

    You'll need to come up with a cool technical name for it yourself. Tell people you learned it from a sitar player on a mountain in Tibet.
    Last edited by jauen; 12-18-2009 at 08:55 AM.
    - Jeff


    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
    - Carl Sagan

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by jauen View Post

    You'll need to come up with a cool technical name for it yourself. Tell people you learned it from a sitar player on a mountain in Tibet.
    NICE!!
    Chris Buono
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  5. #5

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    I couldn't help it. I analyzed the darn thing. It works out to this octatonic scale:

    1 b3 3 b5 5 6 b7 7

    Any ideas what that might be called?
    - Jeff


    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
    - Carl Sagan

  6. #6

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    How 'bout: Major half diminished add 6?

    Dang this is complicated! I would like Larry's insight on this "super arpeggio" as well
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  7. #7

    Talking super arps

    I have gotten a lot of milage over the years in my solos using these extended chord forms.

    Hope Larry gets into them some more!!

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jauen View Post
    I couldn't help it. I analyzed the darn thing. It works out to this octatonic scale:

    1 b3 3 b5 5 6 b7 7

    Any ideas what that might be called?
    I don't have any name suggestions, but I do notice something about that analysis - it looks like a Dominant 7th chord with a lower neighbor on each chord tone...

    (7)1 - (b3)3 - (b5)5 - (6)b7

  9. #9

    Default

    When I first heard of the super arp ages ago it was explained as alternating major-3rd and minor-3rd intervals no matter which direction you were going.
    Steve B.
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