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  1. #1

    Thumbs up "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group

    Hi Gang,

    Matthieu Brandt's Guitar Lab course entitled "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" has generated a lot of interest in this forum ever since its release in 2011. So many of us "forumites" have said this course is on our personal "to do" list that a few of us have decided to use it for a totally new study approach. We are forming a "Study Group" to dissect and analyze this course. A few of us recently took the Berklee Music College on-line free course and saw study groups used in their forums. Ours may be a bit different, but if we can do anything to help each other learn useful musical ideas, why not give it a shot.

    Torr71 has agreed to be our "Moderator" for the group study. On Sunday, he will assign lessons from the course to those of us who want to participate. We will each look at all the lessons assigned to the group for a given week, but we will each be assigned a specific lesson for which we will prepare a written submission. We will post our written submissions on Friday or Saturday. On Sunday, the process starts over with the next group of lessons and during the second week we can look back and have discussions on those submitted during the first week. This process repeats until we finish the course.

    You do not have to be a member of the "Study Group" to participate in the discussions, but we would like for all those who are willing to regularly accept an assignment each week and prepare a written submission on it to please sign up here so Torr can get started giving us our first lessons. The submissions we prepare will be much like those in the course blogs. Feel free to use any chord diagrams or Neck Diagrams that you have crafted on your own. You can also use a sample video if one is available on You-Tube. We are all students and we can all learn from each other. You know it is often the person teaching who benefits most from the materials in a class. Let's jump into this experiment in teaching one another. It may be one way to start something new here on the forum that will be beneficial for all of us.

    It is a work in progress so we may change a few things here and there as we go along, but it will be a fun trip with rest stops made as needed. The group will get assignments here and post their submissions right here in this thread.

    Please "officially" sign up for this Study Group with a post in this thread between now and Sunday (6-16-2013).
    Let's have some fun!
    Last edited by wvgman; 06-12-2013 at 12:22 PM.
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  2. #2

    Thumbs up I'm in

    I am willing to take assignments in the study group on the TrueFire course "Triads and Hendrixian Double Stops."
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  3. #3

    Default

    I'm in... (for real... not in the Coursera Improvisation class kind of way)...
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  4. #4

    Default

    Count me in for assignments too.
    Johnny

    Less is more

  5. #5

    Default

    i'd very much like to do it but i'll skip it this time around because

    - life is really hectic right now and i can barely commit to breathing regularly, let alone a course with assignments

    - this course seems to be a bit over my head and i'd struggle to keep up

    great idea, though! i'll be keeping a lurking eye on ya'all!
    Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

  6. #6

    Thumbs up Hi goranp

    The cool part is that if you want to join in for assignments later down the road, we can make that happen too. Plus you can still chime in on any discussions. It's all good.
    Last edited by wvgman; 06-12-2013 at 08:00 PM.
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  7. #7

    Default

    Cool idea, count me in.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,036
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I'm in, at least for a week. We'll see if I can keep up with the commitment.
    Honey, I'm spending money on guitars or women, ... your choice.

    If you take Satan for a ride, pretty soon he'll want to drive.


    Favorite Course - Blues Alchemy
    Working On - Fretboard Epiphanies & Jump Blues

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    517
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    First, i think this is an excellent idea all the way around. I hope this takes off and we work on other courses together.

    Unfortunately, i think i am going to sit this one out. I have found that TF courses listed as "advanced" are too advanced for me. Coupled with my schedule, i just don't see myself pulling this off.

    Best of luck to the folks in the study group. I will be watching and cheering for sure.

    Tim

  10. #10

    Default

    I have my copy!
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  11. #11

    Thumbs up Ok, so far I see

    The following folks have decided to work in the group so far:

    1 Torr71
    2 Acoustic356
    3 Johnny
    4 Zoidberg
    5 RJBasque
    6 wvgman

    Who else wants to ride along with us and take on an assignment or three?
    Still time to hope on the train: apparently it does make some Double Stops!
    Ok, maybe a simple would be better for that lame attempt at humor.
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  12. #12

    Default

    Alright sign me up too... This dad sale thing just pushed me over the edge.

    With my hectic schedule right now (which has forced me to fall way behind on my Joe Pinnavaia workshop ), all I can promise is that I will be a well-behaved fly on a wall (no sudden movements or arms flailing, please), at worst.

    At best, I may even participate in some assignments.

    If you'll have me and tolerate a slacker and a procrastinator (not by choice this time around), I'm willing to give it my best shot. Seeing how all of you are much better players it may not amount to much but hopefully I can pick up a nugget or ten.

  13. #13

    Cool Hi goranp

    We will add you to the list. All things here are flexible. And we will be most understanding if you choose to spend more time with the Workshop you are taking with Joe Pinnavaia (I am sure I do that would too!).
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  14. #14

    Default

    Thanks Ron!

    Joe really is a great guy and a great instructor but that fretboard material is a bit over my head so I struggle more than I should. All I'm getting these days is 15ish minutes playing time a day, on a good day. Add to the mix the fact that most fretboard exercises are usually quite non-musical and one can hopefully see how easy it is to fall behind on the material. If I do get to grab the guitar, I wuss out and fall back on comfortable noodling instead of doing some productive practice for the workshop. Some days I do the exercises, some days I don't, but the temporal limitations prohibit me from taking full advantage of both the workshop and Joe himself who really knows his stuff.

    I'm downloading the course as I type so hopefully I'll be ready to board the train.
    Last edited by goranp; 06-13-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  15. #15

    Default

    Goranp

    The same happened to me when I took his workshop. All was good until about week 4, then life got hectic, and I ended up not getting much time to play. You get to download all the material at the end (it even looks just like a TF course) so you can work on it when you have the time. There really is some great info in that workshop

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goranp View Post
    If I do get to grab the guitar, I wuss out and fall back on comfortable noodling instead of doing some productive practice
    Sounds familiar - like a day in my life ;)
    Johnny

    Less is more

  17. #17

    Default

    First off a BIG Round of applause to That Wvguy.....My Co-host and side kick

    Hello Folks, and thanks to all that decided to jump in and its still open ...I'll post the assignments on Sunday afternoon EST
    as of now we have 7 folks onboard and I think we'll have 2 groups of 2 and 1 group of 3 ...so
    everyone in their group will have the same assignment. I will assign the groups but feel free to swap around if you feel the need and communicate with the folks in your group.
    This is a work in progress , so things may change as we move along , and if you have a comment or suggestion let us know...

    All are welcome to join in (even if you're not in the study group). I'll post a "topic of discussion" and videos and Articles that relate to the subject are welcome , but do try to stay on topic...
    Just to kick things off...a little pre Class warm up.....Wish me Luck


    The First "topic of discussion" will be on Triads. Three note per string groups...How many songs , can you think of that use simple triads as a main part of a song i.e. verse , chorus...can you easily see these shapes on the neck, what helped you learn these shapes the best..?

    Feel free to add your wisdom or ask questions..

    This is one..
    Pink Floyd - Run Like Hell


    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  18. #18

    Default Ummmmm....

    You know, this is exactly what one of my main problems playing the guitar is... I have no baseline knowledge, either theoretical or worldly.

    I never really listened to music before. Sure, I "listened" to music but only at a most superficial level possible.
    I have no idea what even the most popular blues/rock songs consist of. Yeah, I can sort of reproduce the tune but I have no recollection what instrument is playing, how many instruments there are, what sort of sound is it effects-wise or eve which member of the band is playing at which time, let alone where on the fretboard and in what form.

    Sure, when you show me the video I can say "oooooooh, he's not playing big chords, only triads" but no way am I pulling that out of my memory, for any song, ever.

    All I know are triads on top three strings, major and minor. That's how far I got with my studies, with more troubles along the way than I care to admit to. Even now I can't "see" them, I need to count up/down from a more familiar point.

    Everything I touch regarding guitar playing has been a struggle and an uphill battle. Luckily I'm as stubborn as they come so I don't get discouraged easily.
    Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goranp View Post
    You know, this is exactly what one of my main problems playing the guitar is... I have no baseline knowledge, either theoretical or worldly.

    I never really listened to music before. Sure, I "listened" to music but only at a most superficial level possible.
    I have no idea what even the most popular blues/rock songs consist of. Yeah, I can sort of reproduce the tune but I have no recollection what instrument is playing, how many instruments there are, what sort of sound is it effects-wise or eve which member of the band is playing at which time, let alone where on the fretboard and in what form.

    Sure, when you show me the video I can say "oooooooh, he's not playing big chords, only triads" but no way am I pulling that out of my memory, for any song, ever.

    All I know are triads on top three strings, major and minor. That's how far I got with my studies, with more troubles along the way than I care to admit to. Even now I can't "see" them, I need to count up/down from a more familiar point.

    Everything I touch regarding guitar playing has been a struggle and an uphill battle. Luckily I'm as stubborn as they come so I don't get discouraged easily.
    I'm in the same boat as you. I stopped listening to music in 1993. I decided that I could write better music than what I heard on the radio. Without a lesson, I purchased keyboards and would layer music into the wee hours of the morning. About 10 years later, my cousin put a guitar in my hand and I was hooked. I have hired and fired more guitar instructors than you can shake a stick at after only 2 or 3 lessons!

    TrueFire is the one thing that I'v stuck with the longest and it really has transformed my approach.

    And between you, me and the internet... I would rather listen to talk radio than music!
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  20. #20

    Default

    I get the up hill battle...still in the battle...It annoys the crap out of me when someone says ,,,oh you are so gifted.. A gift is something that is handed to ya and its yours....But everything I've learned has been HARD wrok...no freebies ... Check out my Avatar ...that's me on the geetar..

    A really good course to Check out :



    This course builds on the basic triads and add all the inversion and extensions ...

    It's jam night. Someone calls out the inevitable A minor to D9 vamp. You take the first solo and light the joint up. Now it's your turn to comp. First couple of choruses, no problem. Next few, your comp is getting a little tired but you're hanging in there. Now the soloist starts to ramp things up and you're plumb out of ideas. Audience gets restless. Soloist glares. Gig is up. Been there? Yup, join the club.


    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  21. #21

    Default

    Here we go ,,,This week we'll start out with


    Here are the groups..
    Group 1 : My Chick Break Dn 1 Middle Str
    Torr71
    Acoustic356
    Johnny

    Group 2 : My Chick Break Dn 2 Middle Str
    Zoidberg
    RJBasque

    Group 3 : My Chick Break Dn 3 Middle Str
    wvgman
    goranp

    Everyone should check out the introduction and general principles
    Feel free to post your assignments as a written submission or in Video or Audio or Crayon pictures.
    Have any question ask away ..
    Suggestion on anything , to make this a user friendly experience is most welcome

    Just To recap
    Hi Gang,

    Matthieu Brandt's Guitar Lab course entitled "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" has generated a lot of interest in this forum ever since its release in 2011. So many of us "forumites" have said this course is on our personal "to do" list that a few of us have decided to use it for a totally new study approach. We are forming a "Study Group" to dissect and analyze this course. A few of us recently took the Berklee Music College on-line free course and saw study groups used in their forums. Ours may be a bit different, but if we can do anything to help each other learn useful musical ideas, why not give it a shot.

    Torr71 has agreed to be our "Moderator" for the group study. On Sunday, he will assign lessons from the course to those of us who want to participate. We will each look at all the lessons assigned to the group for a given week, but we will each be assigned a specific lesson for which we will prepare a written submission. We will post our written submissions on Friday or Saturday. On Sunday, the process starts over with the next group of lessons and during the second week we can look back and have discussions on those submitted during the first week. This process repeats until we finish the course.

    You do not have to be a member of the "Study Group" to participate in the discussions, but we would like for all those who are willing to regularly accept an assignment each week and prepare a written submission on it to please sign up here so Torr can get started giving us our first lessons. The submissions we prepare will be much like those in the course blogs. Feel free to use any chord diagrams or Neck Diagrams that you have crafted on your own. You can also use a sample video if one is available on You-Tube. We are all students and we can all learn from each other. You know it is often the person teaching who benefits most from the materials in a class. Let's jump into this experiment in teaching one another. It may be one way to start something new here on the forum that will be beneficial for all of us.

    It is a work in progress so we may change a few things here and there as we go along, but it will be a fun trip with rest stops made as needed. The group will get assignments here and post their submissions right here in this thread.

    Please "officially" sign up for this Study Group with a post in this thread between now and Sunday (6-16-2013).
    Let's have some fun!
    Last edited by torr71; 06-16-2013 at 02:06 PM.


    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  22. #22

    Smile If this helps

    I made a chart for these lessons that may be helpful.

    I grouped these according to their location on the fretboard (top to bottom).

    I color coded the shapes according to the location of their bass notes (1,3,5) or if you prefer according to Root, First Inversion, Second Inversion shapes.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by wvgman; 06-16-2013 at 07:49 PM.
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  23. #23

    Default Excellent!

    Sure beats me fumbling with crayons and paper...

    I've checked out (meaning looked them over without a guitar in hand) all three My Chick parts and here are my initial observations

    - MB is still not my cup of tea when it comes to lessons. He obviously knows his stuff extremely well but for some reason I find his "ipso facto" way of presenting facts a bit offputting. YMMV, and it most likely does. Who knows, maybe his style will grow on me during this study thing.

    - the actual content is great. This material alone would probably take me a whole month (if not more) of focused practice to internalize. So it's pretty apparent that I'm a bit out of my league, being somewhat slow to retain information. I'm still struggling with top three strings triads, having only familiarized myself with first and third
    string root triads (no second string yet). Yet another three sets of triads are a bit too much to cope with right now.
    I will however give them a fair shot and who knows, I may even remember some .

    I'm guessing that my triad vizualization problems have several causes
    - I don't know note names over the fretboard so I cannot say C-E-G, ok, here's a C and here's a G on the next string and here's an E and presto a root triad! All I can sometimes do is find a root note (again, not easy when one doesn't know note names on higher strings) and fumble through intervals.
    - I don't know CAGED (and am not entirely convinced that it's the best way to know the fretboard, contrary to the plethora of caged courses on TF) but am still not at a point where I can look at a diatonic scale fingering and "see" chords embedded inside and just go for a basic 1-3-5 triad within.
    - I really suck at stacking thirds! I get the concept, it's easy to understand on a piano but the six strings baffle me completely in that regard.

    OK, rant over. Let's give it a week and see how I do.

    Ron, that's a great diagram. Neck Diagrams? Also, I'm assuming that p5 means perfect fifth and the little triangle is a major third? What's the symbol for minor third?
    Last edited by goranp; 06-17-2013 at 04:51 AM.
    Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

  24. #24

    Default

    I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't learned all the notes on the fret board either, but I have learned the following:
    • The notes on the E string (for ease in using the F Bar shape)
    • The notes on the A string (for ease in using the A bar shape)
    To me, 1 of the triad shapes is just like using the F bar shape, so that's an easy thing for me to remember. (F, G, A, B, C, D, E... repeat)
    The other triad is like using the A bar shape, although I'm not playing the root where I traditionally would (A, B, C, D, E, F, G... repeat)

    The last shape, you can think of as either the "C shape" or the "D shape", which ever makes you comfortable. (C, D, E, F, G, A, B... repeat)

    Over time, I expect I'll just learn them through use, but I haven't yet learned all the notes on the fret board.

    I hope this "method" helps you a little...
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goranp View Post
    Sure beats me fumbling with crayons and paper...

    I've checked out (meaning looked them over without a guitar in hand) all three My Chick parts and here are my initial observations

    - MB is still not my cup of tea when it comes to lessons. He obviously knows his stuff extremely well but for some reason I find his "ipso facto" way of presenting facts a bit offputting. YMMV, and it most likely does. Who knows, maybe his style will grow on me during this study thing.

    - the actual content is great. This material alone would probably take me a whole month (if not more) of focused practice to internalize. So it's pretty apparent that I'm a bit out of my league, being somewhat slow to retain information. I'm still struggling with top three strings triads, having only familiarized myself with first and third
    string root triads (no second string yet). Yet another three sets of triads are a bit too much to cope with right now.
    I will however give them a fair shot and who knows, I may even remember some .

    I'm guessing that my triad vizualization problems have several causes
    - I don't know note names over the fretboard so I cannot say C-E-G, ok, here's a C and here's a G on the next string and here's an E and presto a root triad! All I can sometimes do is find a root note (again, not easy when one doesn't know note names on higher strings) and fumble through intervals.
    - I don't know CAGED (and am not entirely convinced that it's the best way to know the fretboard, contrary to the plethora of caged courses on TF) but am still not at a point where I can look at a diatonic scale fingering and "see" chords embedded inside and just go for a basic 1-3-5 triad within.
    - I really suck at stacking thirds! I get the concept, it's easy to understand on a piano but the six strings baffle me completely in that regard.

    OK, rant over. Let's give it a week and see how I do.

    Ron, that's a great diagram. Neck Diagrams? Also, I'm assuming that p5 means perfect fifth and the little triangle is a major third? What's the symbol for minor third?
    I understand the MB thing ..Not sure where he's from but they don't speak English there..and if I recall he translates his speaking parts and learns them ...so some of the things he's saying sound odd ...but his material has always been really good..

    One of the easiest ways to start leaning the Fretboard is using Octaves . I have the Neck Diagram program but haven't learned to work it yet or I'd make you a pattern..I also recommend that you learn the notes on the neck...it will help big time
    I'll try to make an Octave Chart...or Wvgman might Blast one out..
    It's all a process..Rock On or however you Roll..


    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  26. #26

    Default

    @Acoustic: I'll give it a shot tonight.

    @Torr: I can actually do the octaves pretty well (thanks in large part to Joe Pinnavaia workshop), it's just that extra step that I think I should get rid of. Just know the note, not use crutches like octaves (although they might come in handy for some Wes stuff).
    I realize that there's no getting around learning the notes, it's just not something that I've managed to conquer yet. E string is pretty much down, I still fumble with A string on higher frets but I can do all C notes at 100bpm all over the neck and that's where I usually start counting from when I need a note someplace.

    EDIT: MB's webpage puts him in Netherlands. Strange, they do speak Dutch there but everyone I've ever met from Netherlands has been multilingual... Crap, I was in Amsterdam just last week, had I known I could have looked him up.
    Last edited by goranp; 06-17-2013 at 11:51 AM.
    Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

  27. #27

    Default

    There is one thing about the middle 3 strings that annoys me...

    The final D triad (the one using the F shape) overlaps the previous set of triads. This throws my notion of "position playing" out the window. It truly seems out of position. When I was working through the triads myself before going through the course, I couldn't figure out how to incorporate the "missing" triad, until I looked at the course ware.

    Is it just me, or did any of you have that same "feeling"
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  28. #28

    Default

    I went ahead and made a diagram..need to learn how to do this...
    I wouldn't look at just knowing the octaves as a crutch it's just one more tool for seeing the fretboard...I see patterns , notes , shapes ..it just depends where my head is at
    Yeah I Know..
    Attached Images Attached Images


    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  29. #29

    Smile Ok, I get carried away!

    I do love playing with he Neck Diagrams software because it helps me see things like relationships of intervals and such on the fretboard. I was thinking about a few things said here in this thread. This is just my rambling. This thread may just become more of a discussion for a week than a specific blow by blow blog type of thing. Who knows? As long as we are learning and having fun.

    (1) I got to get this tangent out of the way. I know in the past we have had one or two who claimed to possess all knowledge of all things guitar, but they were wrong and we all know it. There is NO ONE WAY to study or learn anything on the guitar. Anyone who says otherwise displays their own ignorance of all the ways that do actually exist. Granted there are many who prefer one way over another, and I may have to include myself in that number. Still, since we all come to the table with different perceptive configurations pre-installed, anyone who says there is only ONE way to learn something is demonstrating ignorance of human learning and of teaching methodologies. It is like saying that since the great majority of people are right handed, you must learn to play right handed or not at all. I think even blind people can see or at least hear all the various approaches used on you-tube alone. I want to write a book called "The Pragmatic Guitarist: Doing What Works for You." Approaches to learning are as varied as the students themselves.

    (2) Like Acoustic, I was thrown a bit by the way some of these I-IV-V triads were grouped, but stepping outside my comfort zone is a cool way for me to learn a new approach. Once you do get comfortable with this approach, no law says you have to stick exclusively to it. I know I like the idea of using the F shape for a I and the A shape for both the IV and V. But the more I can get comfortable with other ways to do the same thing, the more options I have when it is just up to me.

    (3) To Goramp. Yes Neck Diagrams is the program I use. I didn't know until I looked, but the program shows a b3 for a minor third and that makes sense to me.

    Ok, I started playing again with the diagrams and came up with this little rough draft that may be some help in learning the notes on the fretboard as a by product of these triad lessons. I think most everything we do on the fretboard can help us in that task if we give a bit of thought and practice to it. I concentrate on the natural notes for the most part and that helps me. But in this pdf you can see how the 3rds and 5ths relate positionally to the root.
    Enough of my yapping. Here is the diagram.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  30. #30

    Default My Chick, Middle Strings - Breakdown 1

    My Chick - middle strings. Breakdown 1.

    In verse 1 we take off from the G chord with root on the 6th string at the 3rd fret (E form), C chord
    with root on the 5th string at the 3rd fret (A form) and the D chord with root on the 5th string at
    the 5th fret (C form).

    However we are only playing on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th string. Triads consisting of 1 root, 1 third, and
    1 fifth.
    The chords are the ones at the top of wvgman's chart.

    We are playing the whole verse in a limited area on 3 strings and 4 frets, for a close smooth
    voicing, without any attention grabbing jumps. Just adding harmony to the mix.

    In the video Matt explains the chords in detail, and shows how a piano player would tackle the close
    voicing.

    Further ramblings:
    Johnny

    Less is more

  31. #31

    Thumbs up Well Done, Sir Johnny!

    Well said and I don't think I have seen you do a video prior to this one! Good work!
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  32. #32

    Default

    This has been an interesting first lesson. Here are my thoughts, frustrations, and opinions:

    1) Thoughts: Songs based on the I-IV-V seem very boring to me. However, a lot of the songs that I like by Sting, Prince, John Mayer and others can be boiled down to a I-IV-V, so it makes sense to have this under your fingers. I tend to learn things by making it musical. I understand the concept being presented, boil the soup down to it's basic ingredients... but I'm really missing the root note and the alternate bass, etc.

    2) Frustrations: Getting the chords under my fingers is the easy part. I can play the triads up/down the neck in the key of G pretty easily, but changing to another key causes immediate issues. I also tend to get a little confused about WHICH chord I'm playing when I move up the neck quickly. It sounds musical, and it's easy to change from 1 triad to another, but I would like to "intentionally" land on a C triad... if that makes any sense. I remember when I was trying to learn the grip or open position chords, I would play the chord and say it out loud, now I don't have to think about it. I'm thinking I may have to do that here as well.

    3) Opinions: I actually like the classroom approach that MB takes when teaching. I don't do as well with some of the other instructors, because they don't give me enough foundation to digest. I have to hunt and forage before I find that tasty morsel (an example of this is Guitar Cubed... I understand what how you're linking those 3 guitar parts together for this song, but A) how did you build those 2 guitar parts and B) How do I link what I learned in song 2 to song 1? It doesn't map well for me... but with a little digging it begins to make sense generically) Okay... what was I talking about? Oh... never mind.
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  33. #33

    Default

    Right with you on point 2. I'm guessing knowing the notes on the fretboard should help a lot for me, remains to be seen.
    Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

  34. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by acoustic356 View Post
    2) Frustrations: Getting the chords under my fingers is the easy part. I can play the triads up/down the neck in the key of G pretty easily, but changing to another key causes immediate issues. I also tend to get a little confused about WHICH chord I'm playing when I move up the neck quickly. It sounds musical, and it's easy to change from 1 triad to another, but I would like to "intentionally" land on a C triad... if that makes any sense. I remember when I was trying to learn the grip or open position chords, I would play the chord and say it out loud, now I don't have to think about it. I'm thinking I may have to do that here as well.
    Maybe I'm dense but I'm not sure what you mean ;).
    Are you talking about changing key in general or are you referring to the "My chick". As far as I understand all the verses in "My Chick" are in the ley of G.
    If landing on the C triad makes sense to me, you are talking about a chord shape and not the actual chord right?

    Maybe it's just because I have a different approach to this stuff. I prefer to think in shapes, patterns, steps and intervals rather than specific chords and notes - for no other reason than they are all moveable AFAIK, so I can transpose them to any key.
    Johnny

    Less is more

  35. #35

    Smile Hi Acoustic

    I can appreciate each of these thoughts, frustrations, and opinions (maybe not the opinion as much since I have not really bothered with Guitar Cubed). These are indeed legitimate concerns. I will share some things that help me to at least get through the course with a bit less frustration.

    1. Perspective (another kind of thought): I view the I-IV-V as only half of a diatonic (through the scale) progression. It covers all the Majors of any key and that only leaves me the ii, iii, and vi minor plus the vii that is diminished (or half diminished if you prefer). I want to know the I-IV-V of every key with out thinking about it so I don't mind playing with these ideas as much as I look at them as a way to reinforce what I may already know. Definitely, as you have time, take these triads into the other keys. I need to do that too.

    2. Approach (another way to practice these triads): It may seem silly, but one of the first impressive things I ever heard on a piano was someone playing a minor triad all the way down or up the keyboard. I like to do the same with a guitar triad. I start at the most base notes (here in our lesson, lets say G with open strings D,G,B) and play it as a triplet three times. Then I find the next highest triad for G (root position in the 5th fret and play G,B,D the same way as a triplet three times. Then I go to the next highest triad for G (root on the 2nd string) and do the same. Then to the next G triad in the 12th fret. Then to the root position in the 17th fret. And as far as I can go. My goal is to know every place on the guitar (and in this case using only the 2,3,& 4 strings) where I can play a G triad and consequently find a G note, a B note, and a D note. (Hey, that is almost half of the seven natural notes in just one triad. I am cooking now! Ok, I can tell myself that anyway.).

    3. I like the sound of Brandt's voice. This is a course where I can see that he is taking the material I have already learned in other places and presenting it in a different way for the most part. The idea of playing short triads over a band that has a lot of music going already can be a satisfying as putting punctuation into an otherwise convoluted sentence. It can be like adding the spices that bring out the flavor in a great dish. I can see a lot of ideas coming from the practice of limiting my playing to these forms for a while.

    Hope this helps with some of the frustration anyway. I hope I didn't add to it. I can be good at that or so my wife says.

    WOW! I think 3 of us were posting at almost the same time.
    Last edited by wvgman; 06-18-2013 at 11:14 AM.
    Studying in Jeff Beasley's Sherpa Class, Shred Warehouse! Alumni of Steve Lasner's Bar Room Blues Workshop! Proverbs 17:22 says "A cheerful heart is good medicine..." So I must be overdosing. "I am slowly puttering along the way to becoming the world's most average guitar player."

  36. #36

    Default

    I am digging the interaction. Usually I have these conversations with my wife, while she continues to read her book and say "mm hmm", "yes", "really?" This is MUCH better.

    I understand that the guitar is a self transposing instrument, and that the triads are movable shapes, but I tend to work a lot on muscle memory. So, when I learn the triads in the key of G, muscle memory helps me find the other locations on the fretboard, not the intervals. Maybe I should approach it differently. (This by the way, is why I also have a problem playing with a capo.)
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  37. #37

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    One of the things that has helped me and it's a bit odd and not really part of the assignment , I'll take the I IV V triads and look at them from a scale perspective...see my chart...it just helps me see things a bit different and gets in my head and fingers ...

    I'm digging what everybody has to say..
    I've been playing in my Church band for many years and playing these shapes and just finding the best way to thin out my playing and staying out of the way of other Instruments... really is what this is about IMHO..
    Making up little exercise and playing them up and down the neck on different string sets has also help too...mindless noodling of triads
    Attached Images Attached Images


    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  38. #38

    Default

    I love the fact that everyone has their own way of looking at things, yet coming to the same conclusion.

    While I had a down moment at work, I drew the triads across 15 frets. It was interesting to see them. I think that helped out a lot.
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  39. #39
    Join Date
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    Default

    Wow, a lot of knowledge flowing out here. I like the reference to the notes on a piano, gives a nice linear picture which is often hidden across the strings on guitar. I think the thing I need to sketch out is the relationship of the I chord root note position (and chord shape) to the shape and relative position of the IV and V chords. I'm thinking having that bit of information down cold would come in handy during a jam session.
    Honey, I'm spending money on guitars or women, ... your choice.

    If you take Satan for a ride, pretty soon he'll want to drive.


    Favorite Course - Blues Alchemy
    Working On - Fretboard Epiphanies & Jump Blues

  40. #40

    Default

    This will be my submission for my Assignment 1..
    I would have liked to have done a video but able at this time

    Triads played on strings D G B...wow that's a Triad...We will be in the Key of G....G(1) A(2) B(3) C(4) D(5) E(6) F#(7) G(Oct Root)...
    Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do ..
    Intervals:
    G to A Major 2nd,
    G to B Major 3rd,
    G to C Perfect 4th ,
    G to D Perfect 5th,
    G to E Major 6th,
    G to F# Major 7th
    These are Intervals so C to G is also a Perfect 5th,,D to F# a Major 3rd,,,,Yeah I know To much Info..

    The Main Triads in this ,are based off the I IV V Scale tones of the G major Scale G C & D

    First Triad GMaj, Root on the 4th String / 5th Fret , (B) Major 3rd ,3rd String / 4th Fret, (D) Perfect 5th ,2nd String / 3rd Fret

    Second Triad CMaj, Root on the 3rd String / 5th Fret, (E) Major 3rd ,5th String / 5th Fret, (G) Perfect 5th ,4th String / 5th Fret

    Third Triad DMaj, Root on the 2nd String / 3rd Fret, (F#) Major 3rd ,4th String / 4th Fret, (A) Perfect 5th ,3rd String / 2nd Fret


    Notice the common tones related to each of the chords and when changing form each chord in this position all the tones are just a Half step or whole step away . This makes for a smoother sounding chord change

    From GMaj to CMaj, G is a common tone B will move a Half Step To C and D will move a Whole Step to E

    From GMaj to DMaj, D is a common tone G will move a Half Step to F# and B will move a Whole step to A

    From CMaj to DMaj, C will move a Major 6th / minor 3rd to A ,E to D Whole Step and G to F# a Half Step

    On a Side note knowing these half step and whole step as to soloing over chord changes can also make for a melodic solo/improv aka Voice leading...


    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  41. #41

    Default

    Here's my submission to week 1. Since I'm bent towards songwriting and being musical, I linked all 9 triads together in a I-V-IV chord progression. My primary concern was getting more comfortable in naming the chords. As a result, I can find the roots on all the chords faster. I also took some time soloing over the chord progression using the triad shapes. The most interesting thing was the tension that the C had.

    So... if you get a chance, play this chord progression a few time. First, play the G and listen to how it fits in. Then, play the D. Finally, play the C.

    Happy listening!

    Oh, by the way, I'm playing the Blackstar Amp with external spring reverb and tape delay run through the effects loop.

    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  42. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by acoustic356 View Post
    Here's my submission to week 1. Since I'm bent towards songwriting and being musical, I linked all 9 triads together in a I-V-IV chord progression. My primary concern was getting more comfortable in naming the chords. As a result, I can find the roots on all the chords faster. I also took some time soloing over the chord progression using the triad shapes. The most interesting thing was the tension that the C had.

    So... if you get a chance, play this chord progression a few time. First, play the G and listen to how it fits in. Then, play the D. Finally, play the C.

    Happy listening!

    Oh, by the way, I'm playing the Blackstar Amp with external spring reverb and tape delay run through the effects loop.

    Good One ! ...it reminded me of this vid by Robben Ford. This in the Key of C....C F G,,
    Robben's use of the I, IV, and V triads over the V7 chord in a blues context.


    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  43. #43

    Default

    Wow Acoustic !!! I liked it a lot! Simple but excellent sounding and straight to the point!

    Well, when all is said and done, it appears that I will indeed be more of a fly on the wall and mostly just let the big boys play in this sandbox.
    I didn't get nearly enough practice time to internalize all this information (did work on my major scale a bit, though) nor do I really have anything constructive to add to all the play-by-plays already posted.

    Hey, whaddyaknow! I'm pretty sure I already internalized the triad with the root on the bottom!

    Anyhoo, great job fellas! Hopefully I'll be able to jump in on one or two assignments. In the meantime let me just reiterate that I'm already learning a lot, I really appreciate the work y'all are putting in and am certainly looking forward to the rest of the course.
    Last edited by goranp; 06-21-2013 at 02:00 AM.
    Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

  44. #44

    Default

    Oh yeah... one more thing...

    The RF stuff always bums me out. Everything is always so effortless with that guy that I can't find a single level on which to relate to any of his stuff.

    And not to mention that his sound is always great to boot...
    Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by torr71 View Post
    Good One ! ...it reminded me of this vid by Robben Ford. This in the Key of C....C F G,,

    Now this is interesting. Robben took the I-IV-V (C-F-G) triads and applied them to all the modes in the key of C, including the Dom7.
    Of course, he slid into some of them and applied some hammer ons.

    This is EXACTLY the type of information that I'm hoping to get out of this course. I think I'm going to spend at least part of the weekend playing the triads to support the different chords in the key of G just to hear what it sounds like.
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  46. #46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by acoustic356 View Post
    Now this is interesting. Robben took the I-IV-V (C-F-G) triads and applied them to all the modes in the key of C, including the Dom7.
    Of course, he slid into some of them and applied some hammer ons.

    This is EXACTLY the type of information that I'm hoping to get out of this course. I think I'm going to spend at least part of the weekend playing the triads to support the different chords in the key of G just to hear what it sounds like.
    Larry Carton has some nice thing to say about Triads in some of his courses ..this is just a taste



    Best Ever !


    Praise Be The Lord, My Rock, Who Trains My Hands For War, and My Fingers For Battle;


    My name is Michael Westen. I used to be a spy.
    Check out the "Triads & Hendrixian Double Stops" Study Group" Put in your 2 Cents

    http://truefire.com/forum/showthread...ot-Study-Group


  47. #47

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    Well done Acoustic - great use of triads
    Some great examples from Ford and Carlton there Torr - great find
    Johnny

    Less is more

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by torr71 View Post
    Larry Carton has some nice thing to say about Triads in some of his courses ..this is just a taste

    I have this course, but I'm not at a place where I can fully understand EVERYTHING that Larry says... I hope to be able to get to that place in about a year.

    On the positive side, the triads do lead you to a particular way of thinking. I've been trying to solo using the idea of triads and actually stumbled across the first lick that he played!
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  49. #49

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    This course has exposed a serious flaw in the way that I approach playing the guitar.

    I never think about the name of the chord that I'm playing, or even its degree (I, ii, iii,, IV, V, vi, VII) when I play.

    Even when I took the Pop Guitarist Survival Guide, or started Solo Craft, I would write down the notes, work through what I wanted to play while listening to the chord without regard to really thinking about the name or degree of the chord after I know the notes. It's about remember the frets where I'm playing.

    This course has exposed this as a weakness (especially since triads can have different names based upon the chord or root note that's being played by the bass guitarist)

    Unfortunately, as someone that can't sing and play at the same time, this is going to present an interesting problem.

    How do you work through this?
    "I'm not trying to play guitar... I'm trying to play music!" Michael Hedges
    Mastering the low end, one TF course at a time...


    The music is here: Dubhain Music

  50. #50

    Default

    The tricky thing is that although only 3 chords and 3 shapes - the chords swap shape as you go up the board. I had to think the first couple of times I practiced them.

    I still have work to do on naming too, so not sure that I'm able to suggest an approach or method.
    I don't think there are any easy method though. It's one of those things that may take years to really get under the fingers. As Brad Carlton would say "There are no shortcuts".
    However when I practice them this I play some chords or licks and say the names loud.
    I don't know which courses covers the intervals and steps related to the diatonic C scale, and how that again relates on the fretboard. But I think it is in one of the mode courses.
    Johnny

    Less is more

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