Hutch82

Brazilian Groove Quest

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I don’t know exactly when it happened but as a teenager I heard some bossa nova Jobim’s “Wave” album,




think it was a restaurant soundtrack, at the time way to sophisticated for my cloth ears but it planted a seed that has stayed with me to this day. When I took classical lessons back in the early 80’s I tried to master “Wave” but the arrangement was too far away from my technique and I had a Les Paul and wanted to rrrrock more badly. So this fascination for the sound of nylon strings and Brazilian rhythms got shelved and shrouded in mystic, filed away for another day. The nylon guitar got sold to finance another plank something or other, too many, and only a year ago a humble Yamaha electro cutaway nylon came my way. There’s something about the percussive bounce to playing a nylon acoustic that has me hooked again almost like you have to wrestle it but if you play with a light touch it comes to life. And when you play those exotic named chords that bossa nova has in its vocab that beautiful sound of Brazilian air[rose tints]. Recent investigation has made me realize that you have to let go those internalized 4/4 grooves that you absorb over, well forever to sound authentic, bossa lives in 2/4.


So howzit work, lol, how hard can it be I’ve asked myself. Well right now it’s the same as learning a language and might as well be Portuguese. I searched for a good resource to learn the musical rhythm and it’s a humbling 40bpm’s on the ‘nome and counting these dots’s out and along with 3 rhythm exercises from a Romero Lubambo course that I’ve had for a while, every day at the moment, repeat, internalize, repeat, internalize. I was beginning to learn a handful of BN songs and apart from the usual battle with some tricky changes I was thinking in the wrong rhythm=like a generic latin feel which is wrong anyway which is OK but not what my finely tuned life enhanced super radar was hearing on Joao Gilberto moves. Rhythm cells, subtle differences in each bar like a shook up rhythm factory oozing grooviness that’s what I’m hearing but the mechanics arrrrrgh, something’s coming but the realization that it could be months ahead yet, one day at a time, frustrating cos I want to get back to learning the songs.

Mantra: must get the rhythm down, locked in, then move on....grasshopper!!

More later
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  1. richb2's Avatar
    Emily Rehmler teaches how to play Bossa on her Jazz and Latin DVD, and she was pretty good at it. I think that she backed up some famous brazillian cats. Of course she is long dead but her DVD goes on. And I am sure that what you are doing is more sophisticated than what she teaches. She basically said to use the thumb to create a constant bass line and play the rest of the strings completely separately. Personally I find playing bossa pretty easy but it is probably due to having spent numerous vacations down in Brazil and listening to lots of bossa in the past 10 years or so. I suggest getting the album The New Bossa Nova by Louciana Souza. One of my favorite albums of all time.



  2. Hutch82's Avatar
    rich thanks for the recommend on Luciana I'm exploring contemporary Bossa as well as the artists from the day that were unfamiliar but easier to research nowadays so any one new is cool. I noticed the bossa Boss Romero Lubambo in the background of the video, he is the real deal...I have been listening to a lot of Rosalia De Souza lately think you might like her.



    I bought the Emily Remler DVD a couple of years a go and there is some good moves to get your groove rolling I must go back to that and work on some of the soloing ideas she uses, I like her BS free zone, sad loss. I think what I'm trying to demystify is reading the rhythms off the page which already after a few weeks is starting to become familiar at least the simpler rhythm cells[bars]. But I need to start from the bottom on this one which is frustrating but the longer term goal is just to be able to move in and out of different grooves every few bars or some think in a "comping" fashion anyway. And getting them off the page is easier to see right now as to hearing them if that makes sense. Figure that will help my soloing phrasing too, s'all good. It's a new stimulating challenge I'm really enjoying hopefully I can have an authentic sound fairly soon...the constant repetition to internalize is doing my chord changing a power of good too certainly improved on falling in to great voicings that bossa has...some times I'll just change between 4 chords of a sequence and get the most for the want of a better word "lilt" out of them and at least try to alter the patterns. In a way this genre is soooooo funky but so far a way from the One yet is the same I must understand this stuff better, the Nation of Syncopation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncopation the key is around the corner, I feel it, so to speak.

    Unfolding to come
  3. Hutch82's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by richb2
    Sounds like you are on your way! I am particularly fond of James Taylor. Much of his work seems to me to be bossa. Have you ever heard him do "only a Dream In Rio"?

    Here is a link to a list of Bossa tunes with chords.

    http://www.bossanovaguitar.com/bossa...ng_lyrics.html
    I'm a long time fan of JT, his voice, songs and guitar style kill me I'll check out Dream later today I might know the track but it doesn't jump out like an ah ha yeh. Thanks for the link I've had that in the faves for ages I'm getting to know some of Joao Gilberto's obscure tracks and that list is a great resource. S'funny that there isn't that much out there or you really have to hunt for information on this maybe old fashioned style makes it like the days when you listen to the LP's to get the information. Maybe that's what Brad should do delete half the catalog and make people hungrier to get the info lol yeh right!!
    Check out this article if you haven't seen it

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/59198909/G...zillian-Rhythm

    this type of thing makes me want to learn to read off the page it's probably what school kids can do easily but I've always had a mental block with, it is changing though cos I'm trying to do some everyday right now. I want to try and get the real stuff no homogenized take away s'bloody hard though when you haven't grown up with it and when you have this James Brown chip in your head lol. Tell me of your exposure to music in Brazil Ricardo?

    Amanhă
  4. Wolfboy1's Avatar
    I hear my first bossa nova music when I was ver little, 1965 or so. My Dad was a huge fan and I have always loved it. I too, went the way of electric guitars and put my trusty nlyon on a back burner but I love it and always will. Of course in the USA bossa nova = Jobim, so he is my favorite.
  5. Wolfboy1's Avatar
    I've got a nice version of Girl from Ipanema (fingerstyle) set up over in my Sherpa classroom by the way....
  6. richb2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch82
    I'm a long time fan of JT, his voice, songs and guitar style kill me I'll check out Dream later today I might know the track but it doesn't jump out like an ah ha yeh. Thanks for the link I've had that in the faves for ages I'm getting to know some of Joao Gilberto's obscure tracks and that list is a great resource. S'funny that there isn't that much out there or you really have to hunt for information on this maybe old fashioned style makes it like the days when you listen to the LP's to get the information. Maybe that's what Brad should do delete half the catalog and make people hungrier to get the info lol yeh right!!
    Check out this article if you haven't seen it

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/59198909/G...zillian-Rhythm

    this type of thing makes me want to learn to read off the page it's probably what school kids can do easily but I've always had a mental block with, it is changing though cos I'm trying to do some everyday right now. I want to try and get the real stuff no homogenized take away s'bloody hard though when you haven't grown up with it and when you have this James Brown chip in your head lol. Tell me of your exposure to music in Brazil Ricardo?

    Amanhă
    We had a Brazilian woman who was our daughter's au pair initially and later became a close friend. Her and her husband moved down to Brazil around 2002 and I went down to visit them. We went to Carnival that year and ate pizza in the AM at the traditional pizza eating place in Rio after a night at Carnival. Later they lived in an aprtment on the first floor of our house for 2 years. We would often listen to bossa and she made dynamite Brazilian food which we often ate outside at a picnic table. Sometimes we would go down to the Brazilian restaurants in Newark, NJ. A year or two later my wife and daughter and I went to Brazil and we saw as much brazilian music as possible.

    I also joined an ensemble class in NY named "Jazz and Samba", but was disappointed with the limited amount of bossa. I have played lots of bossa with ensembles since that time. It is particularly good when we don't have a really strong bass player since in bossa you cover the bass with your thumb.

    Here is Lois Mahalia doing James Taylor's On The Fourth of July. I know it is bossa because she sings one verse in Portuguese!

    http://youtu.be/wKE8BLdOFEs

    Here is It's Only a Dream In Rio by James Taylor

    http://youtu.be/Tv0_feiOecE

    I think the stuff he has done in the past 10 or 15 years is VERY bossa influenced.
  7. Hutch82's Avatar
    Love that Lois Mahalia version and so good to hear JT been a while, even these two examples spell out the amazing groove this music has. And thanks for sharing your Brazilian connection rich. It's been a long working week this week managed to get some playing in along with reading some notation rhythm's in my lunch break need to recharge some batteries tonight and SWMBO is painting workshop tomorrow so should have a good session in the morning. Must try and structure my practice time better, age old problem, but feel I need to get these rhythm "basics" under my belt. Not going to beat myself up though I'm enjoying this quest and will get a song under my fingers tomorrow. Listening to a lot of JG he's my man right now



    Amanhă
  8. richb2's Avatar
    I want your opinion. Does it seems like the guitar is changing chords slightly in front of the beat? Is this a method? I find myself doing this when playing bossa instinctively. I once had a drummer accuse me of "rushing" the tune, but i think that may be standard in the style.
  9. Hutch82's Avatar
    Continuing to work on rhythm patterns this morning and taking some patterns from a Carlos Arana book spent some time clapping out with the 'nome app on my phone @ 40bpm's just getting that 2/4 with the +, a, mix. The stumbling block I've had is the changes on the [a] before the next bar, spent some time with a couple of chords to try a blur into the next bar on the one. It's sort of harder to shake off what instinctively comes out of you but it's not right doesn't sound right. Reading the groove off the page is helping me shake off any faux ideas of what this rhythm should be and it is challenging...down to walking pace at the mo. Signs are there, just again repeat, internalize x10, you will be mine you Brazilian temptress lol. Taking a break helps after 30mins or so think grabbing a whole song today maybe ambitious rnr is what my lazy ass is telling me lol no that's not right, just a bit shagged out after a long week, counting dots is good to relax too and some cool bossa from JG playing in the background while I'm typing this out.



    This deceptively simple music is pretty darn sophisticated to master just got to do the mileage...got two bars clapped out going to do a couple more and do some Homer School of Practicing on the couch with a film and play some changes, enough for today

    We got any notation readers out there to recommend any exercises? I found a Rhythm Trainer app of sorts, surprisingly good fun http://www.therhythmtrainer.com/

    Amanhă


  10. Hutch82's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by richb2
    I want your opinion. Does it seems like the guitar is changing chords slightly in front of the beat? Is this a method? I find myself doing this when playing bossa instinctively. I once had a drummer accuse me of "rushing" the tune, but i think that may be standard in the style.
    I feel this is the key to unlock it being authentic rich and if you are doing it instinctively, right on, I'm making in roads on it now and funnily enough at this stage keep on track better reading it. If I don't it becomes tied in knots and sounds Spanish, Latin-y but not bossa-y if you know what I mean, quite subtly different but takes it out of 2/4. I'm kinda of assuming this, might be cool to run it by Sheryl Bailey when you hang with her if that's not to cheeky [lol, man I'm so English].
  11. richb2's Avatar
    Bossa is not her "shtick" (ie thing), if you know what I mean.
  12. Hutch82's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by richb2
    Bossa is not her "shtick" (ie thing), if you know what I mean.
    I must confess as never having heard a note of Madame Bailey so figure she's a bop cat, well respected lady, I've read her name in various j-azz sources lately. Sort of forgot bossa comes under the jazz umbrella and there's lots of interest out there in guitar land, particularly Europe, I know you hear it in loads of summer festivals and concerts through out France where jazz is very appreciated. Sitting here at Sunday brunch thinking about my guitar day....will do some more rhythm patterns so has to get at least 3 or 4 down to keep internalizing, think if I do some miles with them and build on them, bossa domination here I come. I've mapped out half a dozen songs over recent weeks on chord blocks might pick one and start on a section with some patterns. Think I better start on Girl From Ipanema, it is the must know tune, although I have worked on it before just don't know it by heart yet...that's another reason for the quest is to have a repertoire I still feel rubbish that I've never really had one, call yourself a guitar player lol.


    Updated 04-29-2012 at 06:30 AM by Hutch82
  13. Hutch82's Avatar
    Ended up getting wrapped up in technique and pattern nailing in the shed today... found a couple of patterns in the Nelson Faria book that looked a challenge and spent time just tapping the syncopation's with my fingers and thumbing the bass on my chest weird but works separating the two motions in my head. After an hour of that with this little Android app A-B Repeat doing a bar at a time picked the Yamaha up and picked two exercises of I-VI-II-V's and got the patterns down whilst working on note definition. I've noticed this staccato technique players use upper part of the chord ring's across the bar then take the tension off clipping the sound making this percussive vibe. Fingering cleaner like a classical player helps too I'm finding trying to lose the habits from electric playing with thumb lower in the back of the neck and fingertips more perpendicular to the board. So a couple of hours, bit more song research, found a new artist need a beer and couch time, good day at the quest office.

    Bit of Nelson's outstanding tech going on here and nice tune too



    Amanhă
  14. Hutch82's Avatar
    Found this artist today Luca Mundaca luuuurvely



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrVFH...eature=related
  15. richb2's Avatar
    I like that Luca Mundaca. I just found a Putomayo recording with her on it and I ordered it.
  16. Hutch82's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by richb2
    I like that Luca Mundaca. I just found a Putomayo recording with her on it and I ordered it.
    Is this the one http://www.putumayo.com/content/brazilian_lounge rich?

    Don't mind a bit of Lounge to lounge to or play in the car...was listening to Stan Getz, Astrud and Joao today on the way to work forgot how amazing Stan Getzs' breathy phrasing is, find me a guitar player who phrases like him and you got my attention, brilliant.

    Think I'm making some in roads with my rhythm reading using this tapping on my chest with fingers and thumb system, definitely helps getting it into my head. Rests fox me a bit, got to keep doing some everyday...check me out being disciplined lol...I can hear differences in patterns on recordings now much clearer, like knowing they're there and picking them out, s'really subtle but makes a world of difference. Maybe I should start scratching patterns down like a rhythm notation, like musicians do, could make it one day [to be a musician], think I have a manuscript pad somewhere, lol yeh all the gear no idea!!

    Did a bit of notation duration theory on my lunch today with another app on my phone so I don't have to carry paper round with me love the way we use tech to help us on the path nowadays.

    Checked out Adriana Calcanhoto off the Brazilian Lounge album and like this one off a Tube Playlist she play a cool comp on her nylon in some of the vids.



    http://www.cifraclub.com.br/adriana-...idas-inteiras/

    Oki dok going to do a bit of practicing before dinner

    Amanhă
    Updated 04-30-2012 at 01:59 PM by Hutch82
  17. richb2's Avatar
    Yes. That Putomayo one is what I ordered.

    Here is another one of my favorites

  18. richb2's Avatar
    Yes. That Putomayo one is what I ordered.


    Here is Art Garfunckel doing the famous Waters of March in English. This song is a game. I forget exactly but it is something like each noun ends with a letter and the next word starts with that same letter (in Portuguese). I keep forgeting the exact game. I'll ask next time I speak to my friends.

  19. Hutch82's Avatar
    Obrigado Ricardo for the tunes, happy days for me discovering new music ah man Bebel just discovered this and will be investigating her more in coming days



    didn't have any time to play yesterday but read quite a bit in the evening. Been settling in to the Carlos Arana book, his pattern system is starting to get rewards for me now and along with the included tracks help lock on to them. Also using Transcribe to take the pace off the bpm's to really feel them, goooood gadget, gave up on VLC Player which works but prefer Transcribe for A-B ing and slowing down. Was thinking what it is why I'm heading down this groove highway is it just the "rivvum" or to quote terms from the book vertical and horizontal harmony....do I want to look under the bonnet/hood or just put the fuel in and drive. I've dabbled in trying to grasp jazz in the recent past and took some lessons for a while but found the information overload too much going back to the "paralysis of analysis" phrase. Yet I dig the extended and altered chords and have a good grasp on many of them that feature in the bossa sound. The more I dig in to this wonderful music the voice leading and substitutions are an equal part to the equation and it's a huge subject that I can't take it all on board lol right now. Some of the changes all most make me weep they are so beautiful I'd love to unlock their secrets, getting to change the chords on syncopation's is and can be a challenge but if they're not crafted right the timing of the mood goes out the window s'bloody annoying lol. I suppose it's that not being part of you or at least not yet, it's all I'm listening to at the mo anyway,it's just not super natural. I read somewhere that Brazilian music has a more forward motion to dance to and trying to take that on as well, is it music to shag to, err I think so lol !!

    I remembered this BBC doc from a while back and behold it's on the Tube here's the last part of 1-4 gives a good perspective of it's place on the tree of musical life

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttACv0yuVbM

    To the bossa cave
  20. Hutch82's Avatar
    Thanks for sharing your band performance rich sounds professional to me. Do you miss that band?

    Dug back into some pattern forensics, bit tired after the week so nothing too taxing today. Reinforced the differences between syncopated and anticipated chord changes and mixed them up at a medium pace to beat them into me so to speak. Listening to percussion beats in some tunes and how they mix and match patterns, my steering wheel bongos got me a funny look at the traffic lights this morning lol. Which kind of led me to checking out this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l58nM...eature=related getting a feel for strong and weak beats, groove ingredients.

    Worked on an arrangement of Garota de Ipanema and nearly saved to memory more reps on that to come later...

    but back to the shed, in the pattern gym

    Here's a bit of old school, liking Nara a lot



    mais tarde




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